safety & technology firegeezer on 26 Oct 2008 02:48 pm
New, Lighter SCBA Coming - Updated
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 23, FIREGEEZER REPORTED on a new technology being developed for a lighter, more comfortable self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA).
Later that same day, the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) issued a press release with additional information. We have also acquired some photos from IAFF that demonstrate this new product. Our updated report relies heavily on the IAFF’s information which can be read in its entirety HERE. We have also included some additional information from other sources and are re-posting the video that we first ran on Thursday.
WSYR - TV
Recently, the Department of Homeland Security awarded the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) a $2 million contract to develop a new pressure vessel that will make the self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) worn by first responders substantially thinner and lighter.
IAFF photos
A new design was developed by Sanders Industrial Design in cooperation with Vulcore Industrial of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and this concept is being refined and evaluated by a peer group of fourteen firefighters from around the country. This project is being overseen by Richard Duffy of the IAFF who heads the Occupational Health, Safety and Medicine section as an assistant to IAFF President Harold Schaitberger.
The prototype design that is currently being tested and refined consists of a series of air cylinders attached by flexible connectors between the bottles that allow for the pack to bend and conform with the firefighter’s back and movements. The smaller bottles are wrapped in a new type of material that will not shatter. Unlike conventional cylinders which contain air pressures up to 5000 psi, the new vessels won’t fragment if they’re ruptured. A punctured vessel would simply vent contained air.
All illustrations from IAFF
The weight has been pared from
This demonstration shows the air pack
without the foam protective cover that is
seen in the video.
The air packs, when emptied, are exchanged just like the cylinders are now. You simply unhook your regulator and mask and connect a filled pack. Since they are thinner and flat, they can be stacked efficiently without the need for bottle racks, thereby permitting three times the number of air packs to be stored in a truck compartment.
The much thinner design improves firefighter safety in several ways, including the ability to drag a fallen FF.
Since the development of the new pack requires regulatory approvals before it can be put on the market, the IAFF committee opted to initially design only one size, a 45-minute duration pack. The DHS contract calls for the full process (design, development, testing and production) to be completed within 15 months. Vulcore will make the units and supply them to all SCBA manufacturers such as MSA and Scott. They will then incorporate them with their proprietary mask systems and sell them in the same manner that they do now.
The Syracuse, New York, Fire Department has received some of the prototype models and demonstrated them for WSYR Ch. 9 who created this video report:
Most Commented Posts
30 Responses to “New, Lighter SCBA Coming - Updated”
on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:31 am 1.thomas hooper said …
Awesome, it’s time is overdue. Another positive move from 9-11.
on 30 Oct 2008 at 3:01 pm 2.Clay said …
Ok man really lets think about this for just a second. First all the prototype has no conections for bailout. Second of all its going to make firefighters think they can go places they are not supposed to and third of all it looks like it will burn in seconds. Also if you look at the layout of how the pack is designed there is way to much room for error. 10 bottles to be hydro tested every X amount of years or 1 bottle from a modern pack. Its just not practical
on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:12 pm 3.north chief said …
Yes, and look at all the maintenance those new fangled automobile fire trucks will require, the horses were much more simple and had great personalities. Why should we change?
on 30 Oct 2008 at 9:37 pm 4.One of his guys said …
No kidding north chief…but thats what you get when you promote guys that have been firemen for ten minutes. They go from knowing nothing to knowing everything as soon as they put on a white shirt. Just be glad he is not YOUR Lt.!
on 31 Oct 2008 at 3:02 pm 5.A Quebec`s province fire chief said …
Let`s see what it will be the final product before.
Could be a good product but could not…
If they need a place for testing prototype, I`m interesting. I wan to see that product and try it.
(sorry for my english)
Be safe.
on 02 Nov 2008 at 5:35 pm 6.wingnut said …
Hey Clay,
Have you put your hands on one of the new SCBA’s? If not, then don’t comment about it in a negative way. Try it out and then give your opinion. Just tired of hearing firefighters complain about change. Our IAFF brothers are developing new technology to make our profession safer for us and the citizens we serve.
on 03 Nov 2008 at 9:23 am 7.Lt Gadget said …
Clay, Think about this for a second before you shoot it down. Lighter, lower profile,flexible, less cumbersome. Ever been in a room close to flash? What if you could lay flat on your back and use a handline?
It is so easy to be negative, but it takes courage to admit we could use some improvement in our current designs of scba and ppe.
Sad you think that way Clay, but you are not alone. There are thousands of negative opinion firefighters who never contribute to new ideas or thinking. They sit back and complain, and never do anything positive. Then they wonder why we can’t get funding or manpower.
Put some of that negative energy into some open minded positive thinking and watch what happens.
on 03 Nov 2008 at 9:58 am 8.Eric Lacasse d.c BFD said …
About time that someone think about the safety of our firefighter.If we can save live and reduced injuries of our people, we will be on the good way.
Thank to the people who take this project on hand.
on 03 Nov 2008 at 4:05 pm 9.Battalion Chief in Da Northeast said …
My god, it’s under production and testing. Give the IAFF a chance to develop it. Being a 25 year member of the IAFF I can assure you, they will do what is best for our members. Lower profile means easier entry and exit. Yes, we will get ourselves into riskier spots, as we have done with our gear. But the SCBA manufacturers have been way to slow when designing a better product for us. But to be so ignorant as to not want to see change is ridiculous. The lead the IAFF has begun may develop a new breed of airpack which makes our people safer, and gives us better options.
on 03 Nov 2008 at 4:05 pm 10.Battalion Chief in Da Northeast said …
Yes, we will get ourselves into riskier spots, as we have done with our gear. But the SCBA manufacturers have been way to slow when designing a better product for us. But to be so ignorant as to not want to see change is ridiculous. The lead the IAFF has begun may develop a new breed of airpack which makes our people safer, and gives us better options.
on 04 Nov 2008 at 8:51 pm 11.Firefighter Conner said …
I just wonder how much of a beeting this new pack will be able to take compared to the current ones?
Not only can the current ones take a beeting, but they look tough also.
It may be hard to convince the fire departments that it will be tough enough for them.
on 05 Nov 2008 at 4:16 pm 12.Captain Weaver said …
As the person in charge of my department’s air program, I have this to say: I want it.
Low profile, more than 20 pounds lighter, very few moving parts, no more seperate bottles and packs…Is this even considered a high pressure vessel requiring some form of hydro testing? The potential time and money savings in maintenance alone is heavily peaking my interest.
And in regards to the comment about it looking like it’s made of a material that will burn up, don’t you think the manufacturer knows it’s going into a fire and will test it accordingly? With the slim profile and light weight, I foresee the possibility of turnout manufacturers creating turnouts designed to simply slide one fo these into a pocket on the back for an improved low profile.
This appears to me to be the greatest technological advance in firefighting equipment since the thermal imaging camera. I’ll be watching this one intently.
on 06 Nov 2008 at 1:34 pm 13.wingnut said …
This new prototype will be a high pressure system. It can possibly hold up to 7500 psi. No hydrostatic testing as of now. But that could change, you never now. Just read and find more info. vulcore.com
on 06 Nov 2008 at 4:32 pm 14.Claude Morin said …
WOW ! WOW ! and WOW !
This is my comment as a firefighter and as a firechief.
How expensive it will be, is it compatible with the air mask we already have, what are we gone do with these nice bottle compartment we now have on our trucks and all other question like these are secondary.
Safety and efficiency shall always be our first concern and this product aim directly to that.
As it become available, this product will definitively worth investigation.
on 13 Nov 2008 at 6:06 pm 15.Firefighter in PA said …
first off, one firefighter in my company tested this pack out and he said it was super light. in terms of the material it is supposed to be made out of kevlar so it should not burn up. i also have heard that it is supposed to be so cheap that when it comes to hydrotesting it is supposed to be reasonable to replace the packs. i do not know to many details but it sounds like a good product and im looking forward for it to come out
on 14 Nov 2008 at 5:17 pm 16.former Chief / current Capt. said …
Hey Clay, DUH! put your brain in gear before engaging your mouth.
North Chief, Well said!
As a 30 year vet of fire fighting this will be great, once they get it tested and approved things should get alot nicer for the lads going in. I can’t wait to try it out. We had OBAs (oxygen breathing apparatus) in the navy (many years ago), they were a pain in the butt but their low profile made it alot easier to get thru tight spots like hatches and scuttles you will love the differance.
on 18 Nov 2008 at 11:48 am 17.Federal Firefighter said …
As a new firefighter of only five years i think the new prototype is awesome and well needed. The light weight and low profile are my favorite attributes of this prototype air pack.
on 18 Nov 2008 at 6:00 pm 18.firefighter frank said …
I think if tested to hold up to flame impingement and intense heat as well as meeting NFPA standards for bailout etc, it would be money well spent for any department.
on 21 Nov 2008 at 12:55 pm 19.Lt. J.D. Hudson (retired 30yr.) said …
A few points of interest. This is nor a blanket on your back it is a board. when the cells are pressurized they will be stiff. The stored emergy of 1,000,000 pounds plus of stored kinetic energy divided in a number of cells at 4500 psi. one hour unit is questionable, and you might increase the pressure to 7500 psi. What will happen if one cell or connecting ports rupture? they say it will not shatter indicating this is a problem with cylinders. Cylinders don’t shatter when they rupture either. The unit does not heat up when filled; compressing 66 cu ft. (45 min. unit) of air in a small space in a short span of time will cause a tempurature increase, you may not be able to feel it but it will happen. The looks of the unit laying on the firefighter’s back is longer nd wider than the firefighter. This could be restrictive in a confined space as in a round pipe. In addition, confined space is not a norm as sugested; this is an exception and not the only reason to praise the unit. The performance and durability of the cylinder is much more important. Maintenance of the unit is important, how do you pressure test the unit, will it have a service life, is it allowed a minimum number of fills before it is condemned. How durable is the unit.In addition, how mush heat damage can these unit tolerate.
I don’t want to be negative, but a lot of research should have been conducted before anyone indorsed the unit as the best thing going. It may be an improvement or it may not be the air storage of the future. Sorry this is so long, but it is important the proper research be conducted, not an evoluation on trying to praise something new.
on 22 Nov 2008 at 9:01 am 20.Paul Shannon said …
I,m curious, will the current SCBA manufactures be willing to promote and accept it as part of there product? F/F, SCBA technician.
on 22 Nov 2008 at 10:04 am 21.firegeezer said …
Paul,
I’d be willing to bet that competitive pressures will cause all of them to offer it. Most likely they will carry both their older versions and the new kit until they see which one turns out to be most successful.
Firegeezer
on 02 Dec 2008 at 9:27 am 22.Brush Coat Medic said …
As many others have noted, it’s important to realize this is a prototype. The finished product will take such things as quick-fills into account. From all I can see here, this is a revolutionary development that enhances my safety and improves my capability to perform my duties, and one that’s been a long time in coming.
on 05 Dec 2008 at 3:40 pm 23.fireghost said …
I believe this to be a very interesting and potentially amazing product. I am very impressed with the idea and I really hope that it works well. The fire service really does need some changes in regards to air packs as it has been the same basic design for a long time. Granted, some may say if its not broke dont fix it; but at the same time if it lets us do our jobs even better than im all in! I do have some other conserns though such as its availability price wise. The price maybe a great downfall for rural low budget departments.
on 18 Dec 2008 at 2:49 pm 24.Ricky said …
Where is Rickey Reilly
on 18 Dec 2008 at 7:08 pm 25.Mistymountainjeeper said …
The fact that the IAFF is involved in the testing should mean that our well being is a high priority. It should be nice to have a product provided by someone other than the lowest bidder. As to all our other strap-on gear, I can see lots of room to add stuff to this pack. A real clever SOB would figure out a way to make our PSS packs flat as well, instead of a bag, to reduce the profile more.
on 21 Dec 2008 at 2:39 am 26.Don said …
Hey guys,
This prototype does look pretty good. I have been to a couple of different sights and read up on it. First off, yes it is just a prototype and lets remember that. Second, prior to being in the Fire Service I was a R & D tech in the Rail industry for 10 years. I know, your asking yourself “whats that have to do with this?”. Looking at some of the specs for the the multi-bottle packs rang a bell for me. The bottles have been aproved for Carbon Fiber wraping and Kevlar wraping. More importantly the bottles themselves are made of Hytrel ( by DuPont ). This is the point that rang the bell for me. The company that I worked for produced shocks for trains ( yes trains have them ) that were made out of Hytrel. This material is increadable in the amount of force, abuse and damage that it can take on its own let alone wraped in a casing. Not only did we make train shocks but also the big shocks you see on the huge Catapilar open mine mining trucks are made out of Hytrel also. I have done thousands of hours of testing on this material from temperatures ranging from 400 deg F to negative 40 deg F. The bottles are said to not fragment like our current bottles and from what I have seen over the years dealing with Hytrel I can beleive it. The only times that I have seen any sort of catastrofic failures is with the application of increadable amounts of dynamic force. We are talking in the 100,000 lb to 1,000,000lb ranges. Remember prototype work in always ongoing and what we ( in the public ) have seen has probably already been passed up and been improved upon a number of times. Thirdly, in reguards to what Clay said about burning and bail outs. The material on the outside of the bottles ( what you actually see in the photos ) surpasses the burn threshold requirements of our turnout gear. Also as a side note, it’s my understanding that Velcore Industries is just going to be certifying the bottle packs themselves so that each individual manufacturer ( ie: Scott, MSA etc…) will be able to intigrate it into their own pack design. This means that the indiviual companies will still have all of thier own bells and whistles and thier own take on how SCBA’s should look and opperate. Lastly….be safe out there guys.
on 12 Jan 2009 at 6:36 pm 27.World Traveller said …
300 years of tradition unimpeded by progress… this haunts the fire service. Who remembers the MSA Brigade? That was my first helmet, why did this style not fly in the US…Easy
And I quote “while the new design is obviously safer, the helmets looked funny like they came out of Star Wars.”
Yes that is in reference to the European style Helmet, but this line of thinking holds true. Why are we already shooting something down for the simple fact that it looks different? Someone said that our Current bottles are stronger. Sure your steel bottle is, what about your fiberglass one? Everytime you gouge it it needs to be inspected.
Bottom line, just because its different, lets keep an open mind for our safety and check our egos at the door.
on 14 Jan 2009 at 12:03 pm 28.FyrfyterX said …
Looks Fantastic!! I really hope this will turn into a useful product for the Fire Service, however I cringe when I think of what will happen when NFPA standards are applied to it.
on 14 Jan 2009 at 2:53 pm 29.firefighter2224 said …
so wait… i mean i like that it’ll be lighter and easier to move but what if we run out of air, do you have to strap on a whole new pack of these or can it be changed out somehow like the bottles?
on 01 Mar 2009 at 12:46 pm 30.FDChief said …
I appluade the IAFF for taking on this project. However I hope that it does not become the fiasco the Heart/Lung and Health studies that were conducted and now the Locals fight the Chief and Boards when they try to implement a fitness program the International has endorsed. Keep up the good work an hope all will benefit from this project in the future.